Of Course I'm Not OK: Self-Care [EPISODE 15]

of course I'm not OK

Phew, what a week!

In today’s episode, Karen & Katie discuss how they were doing during the anxiety-ridden election week, what self-care practices helped them most, & ruminate on the concept of owning, without apology, whatever makes them feel good. Karen sends gratitude to the original cast of Hamilton, & Katie admits to possibly creating a super spreader event over Halloween. 

Resources from this episode – Stephen Colbert’s monologue on Nov. 5, 2020; Take a Break, song from Hamilton; Calm app (check out the #Spark section for Dr. Tania Israel’s talk!); Check out Dr. Tania Israel’s book ‘Beyond Your Bubble

Follow Of Course I’m Not Ok: An Audio Project on Twitter & Instagram, and email us with questions/comments/concerns at notokpod@gmail.com. This episode is sponsored by Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. 


Karen: Welcome.

Katie: Hi, my name is Darrius. I am the ghost of John McCain.

Karen: Hi, and I’m Sarah Palin saying that she can see Russia from her house.

Katie: We are so glad you’re listening today to Of Course I’m Not Okay: The Podcast where we talk about all kinds of things from batshit crazy politics, to coping with mental health, to quarantine and creativity.

Karen: For some of our episodes, we’ll talk to semi, mostly sane people, including writers, creatives, and activists to get their take. Thank you for joining us on this journey.

Katie: Hello, Karen. It’s so nice to see you in this Armageddon we are living in.

Karen: Hi Katie. It’s good to see you too. I’m sorry. I feel like we’re on the struggle bus today. We’re just, we’re under the struggle bus. We’re working on the struggle bus, we’re getting hit by the struggle bus.

Katie: We’re kind of flat as pancakes under the front tires of the struggle bus right now.

Karen: Correct. Yes.

Katie: I mean, for those listening, when this comes out on Monday, we still do not know how things are going with the presidential election. We’re not really in the market, this podcast is not a breaking news podcast. If you’re interested in a breaking news podcast, I recommend listening to NPR One or The Daily, the New York Times podcast. Both great platforms. Also Pod Save America is kind of breaking, but not really. Anyway. But we’re kind of in the let’s-talk-about-our-feelings podcasts, but our feelings have to do with breaking news, which is changing. I mean, honestly, it’s probably just changed since the beginning of that sentence.

Karen: That is absolutely correct. It is Friday morning as we’re talking. And I feel like who knows, who knows even what’s happening? I enjoy that we are recording right now and not looking at our phones constantly refreshing the New York Times App to see what’s going on. Like, I feel like even that feels like, ‘Oh my God, we’re at a time warp.’

Katie: Oh completely.

Karen: Cause an hour from now we’re going to check, yeah, to see what’s going on.

Katie: Oh totally. Totally. Like last night, I mean I check it constantly during the day, but then I would turn on the television last night and I was like, ‘Okay, well I just want to see what’s going on. Just like a little snapshot.’ And as I’m looking at those really sad people, like John King on CNN and the other people who are looking at the screens, who are looking like, basically robots and while they’re talking, the numbers are changing in their sentence. That’s how fast this is happening. That it’s like, okay. The addictive quality of this colossal shitshow that we’re going through right now is kind of remarkable. I mean, it’s uncanny. I’ve never seen anything like it.

Karen: It’s absolutely awful. And I mean, yes, it is uncanny because I feel like the 2000 Presidential Election, somebody just reminded me, we didn’t know until December.

Katie: Oh my gosh, that’s right.

Karen: So that unfolded, like it was a slow motion kind of avalanche. And this is this weird mix of rapid fire and then long periods of time where nothing’s happening. And I feel like if you are a news junkie, or if you’re on Twitter doom scrolling all the time, you have this, ‘I need to feed the beast. I have to know what’s going on.’ Even when there’s nothing going on and people fill the vacuum with all of this news that makes you really anxious.

Katie: Oh totally, totally. And it doesn’t help that Trump is inciting violence and like all of the, just not believing that we should stay a democracy. And like, it’s just, it’s kind of a lot to process right now.

Karen: I don’t know if you saw, I haven’t watched the clip cause I feel like it would make me too upset, but Stephen Colbert apparently lost it and started crying.

Katie: Oh no, really?

Karen: Like did a, I don’t know, looking, I mean I guess he always looks at the camera, but did a direct address to Trump before his monologue, and broke down because he was just like, ‘Why are we tearing down democracy?’

Katie: Holy shit.

Karen: He was like, ‘I just didn’t think I would get this emotional about it. But like, that’s literally what you’re doing.’ Yeah.

Katie: Ohmygosh.

Karen: I haven’t watched it.

Katie: Ohmygosh, I’ll put it in the description of this podcast for Monday, just so that people can click on it if they’re interested. But I kind of want to see it. I mean, he’s, I really like Stephen Colbert and, he really keeps his emotions like just at the forefront, which I really appreciate. Like The Colbert Report was kind of fun to watch, but I kinda like him better in his current position. Cause it’s like, ‘Okay, I know who you really are’ type of thing.

Karen: Absolutely. Yes. There’s not this weird character. Yeah.

Katie: Mhm, which I kind of got pissed at sometimes, but I think it was by design, but still. I was like, okay, drop the act.

Karen: Yeah.

Katie: But wow. Yeah. It’s hard not to cry. I mean, I’ve had moments this week where I’m just like, ‘What is even happening.’ And then, earlier this week I was like, ‘Why am I not more anxious?’ Like this is, you know, in my mind, I was like, we’re going to be okay. Like this Zen, I think, like coping mechanism in my brain of like, ‘Okay, we’re going to be all right.’ But what I noticed was that my back was seizing up. Like my back and my neck and my hips. Oh my gosh, Karen. I was like, did I get in a car accident and I didn’t remember it? Like, I mean, that’s not even something to joke about but, like, no I didn’t. But like I honestly felt like, ‘Wow, I just don’t feel good.’ Like my body is reacting to this stress in like a very, like, like very physical way. Do you know what I mean? Like, that’s just ugh.

Karen: Wow. That’s really intense. Yes. And I feel like it’s like, I hope that’s a good reminder for people to really check in with your body. Cause I do think we do this thing where it’s just like, ‘I’m going to stay calm and I’m going to manage my emotions’ and your body’s like, ‘Yeah, no. Fuck you.’

Katie: Mhm. Totally.

Karen: We’re all just gonna, we’re just gonna seize up. And I feel like you’re just reminding me to just raise my shoulders and feel if they’re clinched or not. Yeah. I do feel like, I mean we talk about this a ton that we are not socialized to listen to our bodies at all. So just the notion that you would like take a moment and be like, ‘Okay, how do I really feel right now’ is revolutionary really.

Katie: Oh my gosh. I mean, it’s amazing. Cause like, as we’re talking, as you’re talking, we’re both rolling our shoulders. Nobody can see us, but we’re like, ‘We’re okay.’ Like, we’re taking deep breaths between sentences. But yeah, you’re right. I mean, it’s like, you know your body doesn’t lie, no matter what. Like, if you don’t feel good, if you’re, you know, like if something is kind of nagging at you, it could be a manifestation of external stress. Like that’s totally normal for people to experience.

[musical interlude]

Katie: Today’s episode of Of Course I’m Not Okay: The Podcast is brought to you by your living room rug. This rug is the perfect place to dump all of your anxiety. What I like to do is lay on it and stare at the ceiling for minimum 30 minutes. Trying to do that every day. It helps.

Karen: Your living room carpet. It is calling out to you. Just give into it.

Katie: Just give into it. Just breathe deeply. Keep your phone in a different room, and just give in to the living room carpet. Thank you carpet.

Katie: It’s, you know, kind of segue from what you’re saying into this concept of self-care right now. I mean this week I have not been perfect at self-care. I’ll say that for sure. But I did mess up over the weekend, big time. So Halloween was over the weekend and we had this, like, we moved to this place in Bend, this really nice neighborhood with a bunch of kids. And we had this like parade and there was like, it was supposed to be socially distanced and it kind of wasn’t. I mean, it really-

Karen: *groan*.

Katie: It’s like a bunch of four- and seven-year-olds like they, you know, it’s okay. And so, but the adults are usually, they’re wearing masks mostly. And after the parade, we kind of walked around with our friends and their kids. And then we went and sat on our driveway. And it was really only supposed to be like six of us, or maybe eight of us, but it was all very distanced. Like we were going to have like a little social distancing drink, and then everyone was going to go home. No big deal. But because it was Halloween, and there were so many people that were walking around, it kind of became this, like, gathering center for the entire neighborhood. And at one point, I think that maybe there were like 35 people on our very small driveway. And I looked-

Karen: Wait, what?

Katie: Yeah, I know it’s actually, it’s bad news. Like Tyler and I have been so vigilant about social distancing.

Karen: *whispers* Ohmygod.

Katie: And it was one of those things where it was like, I look over at him – he’s wearing a unicorn onesie by the way – and I’m wearing like a wicked witch of the West from The Wizard of Oz outfit. And it’s like, it’s so interesting to me because it’s like, okay, well. You know, we’re drinking at this point. Like, we have beers in hand. And so we don’t have our masks on. And at first, you know, we’re just talking distanced to our friends, and then like more and more people super-friendly come up and they’re just like, ‘Hey. Welcome to the neighborhood. It’s great to meet you.’ And we’re very touched. There’s this, like, it’s almost like a neurotransmitters, like dopamine hit of like, ‘Oh, this is great. This is a new friend.’ Like, this is really nice. And then also, I look over at Tyler and I can see he’s visibly uncomfortable. And it’s like, what do we do in this situation? I mean, honestly. In hindsight, of course, I should have just shut it down. And so should he. Like, we should have just been like, ‘Hey guys, it’s great to meet everybody. We’ll touch base in the spring,’ which sounds weird. But like, this is not, you know, this is not super safe, but we didn’t. It was like this human need of – and I’m not trying to, you know, at all give us a pass – but like, it was this feeling that we had not been around that many people in eight months. And so it was really actually very nourishing to us on like a psychological level. So anyway, we were talking to people, and then we came inside, and we like Lysol’d every single thing in our house.

Karen: Ohmygod.

Katie: Because a few people had to use the bathroom. And like, we weren’t going to say no to, you know, a kid or a parent with a three-year-old like, what are they going to do? You know? And so anyway we came inside and both of us were like, ‘Shit.’ We immediately regret that. And so, I started getting really stressed. Like I was like, ‘Oh my God. What if we get sick for real?’ And I’m telling this story not to be insensitive to anyone who has experienced COVID or anyone who is experiencing any illness, but I will tell you that in my experience on Monday, I was like full-on freak out. Like I was like, ‘Okay, I definitely have COVID.’ Like, just in my mind, I was like, ‘Oh my God, I fucked up after seven months of vigilance.’ And so I woke up and I was like, ‘I actually don’t feel that good.’ And I was like, ‘Ah.’ Like, ‘I just feel a little bit stuffy.’ And I was also stressed for other reasons and, well like the election, honestly I think it was actually really affecting me before it was happening. And so I was sitting at my desk working and I was like, ‘I gotta get out of my house.’ Like ‘I just have to get out of my house.’ And so I was like, ‘That might help.’ And so I got out of my house, I drove to the nearest plant store. I spent $300 on succulents. I came home and I was cured. That is, I don’t even know what that means. That was my anecdote. Antidote is what I meant. Yeah.

Karen: Ooh. I am having a lot of feelings. I’m also feeling like the succulent industry maybe should sponsor us because you’ve supported them so much. I’m so sorry you’re going through that. And it just sounds really stressful. And I feel like, I hope people can relate because I think we’ve all been in social situations in the last, especially the last month.

Katie: Yes.

Karen: Where you just feel like, ‘I know I should walk away. I know I should go home. I know I should say no to coming upstairs to hang out,’ but yeah, you just get swept up in like, ‘Oh my God. Human connection. In real life.’ Yeah. I mean, I hear you. And I feel like sometimes, it’s not funny, but I feel like I also, I’ve had this same conversation with so many people who have like, COVID-potential, super-spreader event regrets-

Katie: Yes!

Karen: that doesn’t turn into anything, but it’s just like you just. As a reporter of course, you step back and you think like, ‘Are these the conversations that people had during their super spreader event?’ Do you know what I mean? Are these the conversations, are these the decisions that people were making before, during and after the super spreader event that’s now in the news?

Katie: Yeah. And I mean, I don’t think that buying $300 worth of plants solved my, you know, COVID scare, but I don’t know. Like, I did feel better. I do feel better. I think there’s just a psychological, sometimes changing the energy. I mean, obviously, if I had COVID then I would still be sick, obviously. But I think there’s a, like the idea of just changing your energy sometimes. It’s just a form of self-care, at least for me.

Karen: Absolutely. I mean I just, again we’ve talked about this. I love that you recognized it. Like, ‘I feel like shit. I need to change my surroundings. I need to stop what I’m doing. I need to hit the reset button.’ And I feel like we don’t give ourselves permission to do that enough. Like, ‘No, no. I just have to sit through here. This is a work day. I have to power through it.’ Like, no, fuck it. It’s a pandemic. Go buy succulents. Go take a walk. Go online shop for weird shit on Etsy.

Katie: I totally agree with you. I think it’s just, I do think that at least for me, there’s always this tiny voice when something’s wrong, and it’s like, ‘Hey, take a break. Don’t keep writing. Don’t keep checking your email incessantly. Don’t keep your fucking email tab open for 10 hours a day.’ Yeah. And like, I mean, email is a disease for me, but I, or ‘Don’t check every single text. Put your phone on airplane mode.’ But you know, that little voice gets quieter and quieter the more that I don’t listen to it. And so it’s like, sometimes it’s hard to listen to that. And I feel like when I do listen to it, universally every single time I listened to it, it’s the right answer.

Karen: Absolutely. I will say, it’s so funny you say it that way because the song I have had stuck in my head all week, to the point that it just feels like. It feels like literally it’s stuck in my head. Like I can feel it. It’s like, you said a splinter in your heart about anxiety, like I can feel it in my brain is the Take a Break song from Hamilton.

Katie: Oh yeah.

Karen: I don’t remember what it’s called. It might be Take a Break, but oh my God, I wake up and I hear it in my head. I listened to it to try to get rid of it, to like exorcise it. And it’s like, Nope, we live here now. We, the original Broadway cast of Hamilton, we live here in your brain now.

Katie: We are constantly reminding you that taking a break is always the right answer.

Karen: Exactly.

Katie: Seriously. And I think that that’s something that, at least I struggle with. Especially right now, where taking a break, it’s like, ‘Okay, well, wait. If I take a break, I’m going to miss John King on CNN for two seconds. And he might tell me that Nevada would just went for Biden.’ It’s like, okay, you know what? Like this is, I mean, I’m not a self-care guru in any way, but I don’t know if that’s super good for your nervous system to just be on all the time. You know?

Karen: I don’t think it is, even for short bursts of time. And I also, I mean there’s also the criticism of the media, which I feel like I don’t know that we’ll ever change it. But this treating the deciding of our democracy, this treating democracy as a horse race. This treating it like it’s this thing that you have to constantly, like it detracts away from what we’re actually doing here. Like, I mean, you get caught up in the drama of it and the theater of it and the cool graphics and all that shit. And you forget that what we’re doing here is deciding the person that will chart the course for the next four years slash 20 years slash generation of our lives. And I don’t know how to bring that back, but oof it’s really scary.

Katie: It’s the sensationalizing, it’s like making it into entertainment. I mean, when you turn on the television and you actually hear the soundtrack to Jaws in the background of NBC, or at least what you think that is. It’s like, ‘Oh, this is, this is very-.’ I mean, it’s hard to actually detach though. It’s hard to even, cause it’s like, all those things go together, and your brain probably can’t really, or at least my brain can’t really parse it out. Like, ‘Oh, I’m hearing this like doomsday music as part of watching democracy happen or dissolve.’ And it’s like, that gets into your brain. Like that’s really, and you’re right, there is a criticism for the media in terms of doing that. And in terms of being the one channel that everyone turns into versus the other channel. Or, you know, how they’re competing, because you’re right. What we’re talking about here is the future of this country for the next, you know, who knows? I mean, we’re talking about Supreme Court Justice nominations. We’re talking about like, you know, I mean, yeah. ACA, all of it.

Karen: Yeah. I mean, aren’t they supposed to hear a Roe case today? I can’t. I just, it’s just too.

Katie: I know. I know.

[musical interlude]

Katie: Are you in the market for a new bed?

Karen: Is your queen size bed just not cutting it right now?

Katie: Do you feel no matter how big your bed is, if you share it with another person, it still feels like a fucking postage stamp?

Karen: So, okay. Let’s just real talk. Why is the biggest bed a California King? I feel like we should step up from the California King, and what we decided was, Katie, that we should have a-

Katie: We should have a Pacific Ocean King. We’re thinking 15 feet by 15 feet. This should be standard and only for two people. If you allow your dog or cat or pig or whatever serpent you have at home into your bed, that is your business. But I like to be as far away from another human when I sleep as possible. And so therefore the Pacific Ocean King really solves that issue. 15 feet by 15 feet. We’re really in the market because this just seems like it’s going to solve so many problems in relationships. And I think, you know, asking for a small seed round of $1 million to start this venture, Karen, is really where we’re at with this advertisement.

Karen: That’s exactly right. And I also want to note, two humans and a pig. Four humans and a ferret, whatever your relationship or sleeping circumstances look like. We feel like the Pacific Ocean King is for you.

Katie: Absolutely. No judgment as to whatever your sleeping situation is. But we really think that this could solve so many problems and just increase the success and satisfaction in all relationships. So, venture capitalists hit us up. We are starting bids at $1 million and we will be more than happy to help you make this a reality. Pacific Ocean King.

[musical interlude].

Katie: So Karen, how have you been taking care of yourself this week? Like talking about self-care. Are there things that, outside of the Take a Break Hamilton soundtrack, which sounds like it’s almost like your body’s reaction. Like, you know, it’s like an autoreaction, like ‘Karen, we love you. Please take a break.’ The original cast of Hamilton loves you, Karen. Like, that’s such a gift.

Karen: I love them too.

Katie: I love them, too. I love Lin Manuel.

Karen: I know. Thanks Original Cast. Self-care this week. Hmm. I’m struggling right now. Oh, you know what, I’ve been, I have continued to distract myself with ridiculous YouTube videos. I just love scrolling YouTube and watching dumb things like makeup tutorials and drag queens making fun of themselves and furniture restoration. All of it. My YouTube history is just a hot mess. So yes, and I’ve been doing that and I have also been like, not letting myself check Twitter all day.

Katie: Yes.

Karen: Like I’ll just give myself kind of like, hits of it, but not sit on it all day because I realized that, I realized again, I remembered again that like feeling anxious, scrolling through Twitter is what Twitter is for. It is there to make you feel like you’re not doing enough. You’re like, it’s there to just keep you scrolling endlessly. So yeah, I just take quick hits of it. And then I step back.

Katie: That’s such a good idea. And also, watching things that bring you joy on YouTube is so awesome. I mean, I used to think like, ‘Oh wow.’ My sister is obsessed with cat memes. Pretty much any animal meme. Like she thinks they’re endlessly hilarious. And I actually do too. She sends me the funniest ones and it’s great. And I actually find that, I don’t know, I used to be a little bit judgy of, you know, ‘I shouldn’t be looking at this stuff. I should be productive.’ Fuck that shit, fuck that noise. If something makes you happy and you’re doing it and it’s not hurting other people, don’t feel bad. Like, I mean, it’s just wonderful, like makeup tutorials and drag queens on YouTube. Hell yeah.

I mean, for me, it’s like, I’ve taken a few baths. I will say that baths have helped. Now I’m in week two of my bath habit. I’m not going to say addiction. Nice habit, healthy nourishing habit. But I find that my brain doesn’t actually turn off when I’m in the bathtub. Like I think I need to, like, I dunno, do a meditation beforehand. I think meditating would be something that would actually be really good for me. Also shout out to Calm app. We are always interested in your sponsorship, but I do think about, you know, doing more meditation. Doing more baths. I actually think pruning my plants is something that helps me calm down a little bit. And also talking to friends. I mean, I’ve had a few conversations with friends this week that have been really great. And it’s like, you know, sometimes just shooting the shit and hearing how they’re doing, even if they’re not doing great, it’s just helpful to just know that you’re not alone.

Karen: Absolutely. I’m on a couple of text threads with very, very funny, very snarky, very freaked out people. And I agree that it helps so much. And okay. Before I forget, I want to do a shout out to Dr. Tania Israel, who is on the Calm app this week.

Katie: What? Are you serious?

Karen: Wait. Okay. I thought you saw this on Instagram. Wait.

Katie: Oh no.

Karen: Wait, wait, wait. Yeah. So she was The Spark. You know, they have this like regular series they’re doing where they interview people about different things. It’s called The Spark.

Katie: Oh!

Karen: Wait, Dr. Tania Israel was on it. On Instagram, she’s @bybdialogue on Instagram. And she says, ‘You can find me speaking across political lines on the Calm app in the #Spark section. Enjoy.’ And the quote that she has here is ‘If you rearrange the letters of the word listen, it makes the word silent.’

Katie: Oh, I love that. Yes.

Karen: So this is my other favorite part of this: so I commented on Instagram. ‘This is so exciting. Congratulations. I can’t wait to listen.’ And she said, where did it go? Oh, ‘I told the comm folks that I first heard of the app on your podcast.’.

Katie: Oh, that’s amazing. Karen, we have an in. Oh my gosh. This is amazing. Listeners. You heard it here first. This is the beginning of our manifesting of either becoming a Calm podcast or – which we’re very open to – or having Tamara Levitt on. Which Tamara Levitt is the voice of Calm, which we love you Tamara very much. And not to be creepy, but we’d love to have you on our podcast. That’s amazing. Also for anyone who has not heard Dr. Tania Israel, she is the one that we interviewed. She’s an amazing, amazing professor at the University of California Santa Barbara. And we talked to her about navigating difficult political conversations in our episode seven. So you can look back on the podcast app for that conversation. She’s like very Zen and wonderful. And that’s so cool that she has a partnership with Calm. Good for her.

Karen: I know. And I don’t know if it’s an ongoing thing, but it was definitely like an episode and she has a book out. So, she’s also the author of Beyond Your Bubble: How to Connect Across the Political Divide.

Katie: Something we could definitely use at the moment. Yeah. Yeah.

Karen: Yeah she was good.

Katie: For sure. Oh, that’s so awesome. So yeah. Calm, we love you. And for anyone listening who has not used the Calm app, highly recommended. There’s a free version and a paid subscription. Both are great.

Karen: Yeah. And they’ve made a lot more content available for free because I think they recognize that everybody needs to be meditating or doing something.

Katie: Yes.

Karen: Right now, with, yeah.

Katie: That our whole country is in the midst of a collective anxiety attack.

[musical interlude]

Karen: This episode of Of Course I’m Not Okay: The Podcast is brought to you by that meeting that should have been an email.

Katie: Most likely, almost every meeting should have been an email.

Karen: Or a Slack message, people.

Katie: I mean, Slack at the very most, but also sometimes just make sure that you know what you want to say before you send it, and before you schedule that meeting. Moral of the story.

Karen: Thank you, meeting that should have been an email for wasting so much of my time.

[musical interlude]

Katie: I feel like self-care is so specific to different people. And it’s like, if those listening are thinking, ‘Well, I think self-care is X, Y, Z, whatever that is.’ If it’s doing art, if it’s just sitting and staring at a wall for 10 minutes, if it’s like, whatever it is, it’s okay. It’s your personal choice. It doesn’t have to be taking a bath. It doesn’t have to be meditating. It doesn’t have to be, you know, anything that we’ve mentioned. It’s like, whatever makes you feel better. I mean.

Karen: Absolutely.

Katie: Do it. We all have to take care of ourselves right now.

Karen: I stole this from my therapist, like the idea of as you’re doing the thing, whatever that is to take care of yourself, being very intentional about saying to yourself, ‘We are doing this thing to take care of ourselves. We are giving ourselves permission to step back from whatever it was that we were doing to take care of ourselves.’ Like, I feel like there’s something magical about that sinking in that, like this isn’t just a random thing that I’m doing. This is something I’m doing to take care of myself.

Katie: Ooh. That’s a really important distinction. I love it. So I love your therapist. They’re amazing.

Karen: Oh my gosh she’s so good.

Katie: That’s like so awesome. Actually, that’s a really important distinction, I think because sometimes I will shame myself for taking care of myself.

Karen: Totally.

Katie: And like that messaging doesn’t feel good. It’s like, ‘Ugh, I need to do this thing’. Like, ‘Okay, I’m only going to squeeze it in for two minutes.’ And like, while I’m doing it, I don’t actually feel that good. So instead switching the narrative and saying like, ‘I’m doing this to take care of myself’ and like repeating that as a mantra or an affirmation. I feel like that’s just so much healthier for your brain.

Karen: Yeah.

Katie: I send peace and love to everyone listening. Cause I just know that like, this is an anxious time for everybody. No matter what side of the political aisle you’re on. I wish you self-care. I wish you, you know, just moments of stillness.

Karen: I agree. And I also want you to know if you’re on the other side of the political divide, I also wish you some kind of revelation. I mean, I hope you’re okay. But I also hope that something happens to you to make you realize you’re on the wrong side of history. And also Calm.

Katie: Yes and also calm.

Karen: And struggle.

Katie: Yes. I hope you are also calm and relaxed and feel good. So it’s really nice to see you Karen, as always.

Karen: So good to see you, Katie.

Katie: I’m glad we’re talking about self-care in like the most stressful week in, or you know, one of the most stressful weeks where the words civil war are, you know, creeping up into mainstream media and just casually. So, you know.

Karen: Real casual. Yeah. Mhm.

Katie: So casual. But yeah, until next week. I am very excited about next week though. We have an amazing guest, which I will not reveal, but she’s incredible. So. I can’t wait. All right, well see you next week. Adios.

Karen: Bye!

[musical interlude]

Katie: Today’s podcast is brought to you by one of the things that helps both Karen and I with our anxiety when it’s very high, which is mindless data entry.

Karen: Spreadsheets, Airtables, random documents of cutting and pasting. It’s like a balm for the soul.

Katie: It really is. Give in to that balm for the soul. Enjoy mindless data entry. Thank you for sponsoring this podcast.

Karen: Oh, and by the way, if you were looking for some mindless data entry, we have some episodes that need transcription services. Contact us today.

Katie: Contact us at Twitter @not_ okay_pod or at notokaypod@gmail.com. Thanks so much.

[Editor’s Note: We good now.]

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